Ante up tournaments on Stars?
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Kugr84
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 317
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 Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I noticed that PokerStars has been running a new kind of tournament called "Ante Up" where the blinds stay the same but the antes increase. This seems like a great way to kill any nits. I haven't had a chance to play one yet, but I will definitely be trying to play one soon!
Anyone actually played one of these yet?
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| Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:45 am |
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Fox
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:25 pm
Posts: 109
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I hadn't heard of these tournaments, that sounds interesting. Sounds like stealing will be huge in those tournaments, and anyone who is aggressive enough will have a nice advantage over the tight players as long as they can handle the steal and resteal game. I'll try to play one soon to see how they go.
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| Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:55 pm |
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Kugr84
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 317
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I actually played one Saturday or Sunday and it was completely different from any other tournament I have ever played.
I have no clue what the optimal strategy would be for these, as it's a completely unique structure.
What I ended up doing was open shoving any time I had ~20 antes or fewer, and resteal shoving with 25-30 antes if someone opened to 5 antes or so (+ 9 in the pot). I ended up getting ITM but felt really unsure of my play the entire tournament.
From my observation, it would be +EV to limp every single hand that is unraised when it gets to you, especially as the antes go up. Any time you can see a flop for 5 chips (blinds are permanently 5/5) when the pot is already at 500+ from the antes it has to be +EV with any two cards.
As far as good raising amounts, half the pot seemed about the norm.
There has to be a way of figuring out the minimum ante size your stack has to be to make pushing with ATC profitable, but I don't even know where to start to figure that out. I am pretty sure that it's more than 10 antes as that will only get you one orbit, and it is probably even higher than the 20 antes that I was using since I would frequently be unable to push for several hands in a row due to other pre-flop action.
Position seems to be extremely important in this kind of tournament, as it allows you to make steals that are extremely valuable relative to the bet size.
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| Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:42 pm |
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Fox
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:25 pm
Posts: 109
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I would use M from the Harrington books as a starting place for open shoving these things, and you can make a spreadsheet with ICM calculations that would tell you when it was optimal to shove any two or a particular hand. I would imagine that you are pretty close, though maybe a little conservative on your guesses, with ~30 antes being a good place to start shoving a lot. With a greater chance to win the antes when you do shove, shoving with any two can probably wait longer than it would with a blind structure, but only by a little bit.
The limping thing is spot on, when you can see a flop that cheap it's great, and if there are lots of people seeing flops it would be a great structure for those of us who know how to play post-flop.
It's also interesting that the blinds have the advantage preflop in this game because they are last to act and the blind they are paying doesn't matter at all.
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| Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:35 pm |
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Kugr84
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 317
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I don't think the M concept really applies because of how steep the antes can get and the propensity for people to fold to preflop raises. If the ante is at 1,000 you'll have 9,000 in before the flop and an M of 5 would be 45,000 chips or 45 antes. I think open shoving any two is a very bad move with that large of a stack size since a raise to just 3,000 will take down those pots quite often (and these raises only have to work ~1/4 times to be profitable with any two cards).
The blinds are first to act after the flop, which is more of a disadvantage than acting last preflop is an advantage I think. The big advantage I can see from being in the blinds is if you are willing to be aggro with squeezes, otherwise I would prefer to have position post flop. Later in the tournament when more people are open shoving, the blinds are in basically the same situation as the blinds in a regular tournament.
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| Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:33 am |
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Fox
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:25 pm
Posts: 109
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
If people are folding that frequently to raises that small I guess you should be stealing like mad. Once people get used to those tournaments and stealing and restealing become rampant, you'll have to play better hands, but it sounds like you could almost open with any two, every chance you get.
The concept of M is still important, you just don't have to follow the rules that apply to blinds. Remember what your M is with the antes to keep yourself aware of where you are in the tournament and how much pressure you are under to make a move.
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| Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:56 pm |
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Kugr84
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 317
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
Obviously if you try and steal too much they catch on. I think a lot of people just have no clue how to play these right now.
I agree that M is important but I don't think the traditional guide of open shoving any two with an M of 5 is relevant. I think based on my experience that it would end up being closer to an M of 3 with these tournaments.
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| Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:30 pm |
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Kugr84
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 317
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Re: Ante up tournaments on Stars?
I played another one of these, and the fields are still very soft. A guy tried to steal with 64o and called my RR then got all in with bottom pair to suck out on me 
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:06 am |
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